NEW YORK (AP) 鈥� isn鈥檛 just the director and cinematographer of his latest film. He鈥檚 also, in a way, its central character.
鈥淧resence鈥� is filmed entirely from the POV of a ghost inside a home a family has just moved into. Soderbergh, who serves as his own cinematographer under the pseudonym Peter Andrews (his father's name), essentially performs as the presence, a floating point-of-view that watches as the violence that killed the mysterious ghost threatens to be repeated.
For even the prolific Soderbergh, the film, which opens Friday in theaters, was a unique challenge. He shot 鈥淧resence鈥� with a small digital camera while wearing slippers to soften his steps.
The 62-year-old filmmaker recently met a reporter in a midtown Manhattan hotel in between finishing post-production on his other upcoming movie ("Black Bag," a thriller Focus Features will release March 14) and beginning production in a few weeks on his next project, a romantic comedy that he says 鈥渇eels like a George Cukor movie.鈥�
Soderbergh, whose films include 鈥淥ut of Sight,鈥� the 鈥淥cean's 11鈥� movies, 鈥淢agic Mike鈥� and 鈥淓rin Brockovich,鈥� tends to do a lot in small windows of time. 鈥淧resence鈥� took 11 days to film.
That dexterous proficiency has made the one of Hollywood's most widely respected evaluators of the movie business. In a wide-ranging conversation, he discussed why he thinks streaming is the most destructive force the movies have ever faced and why he's 鈥渢he cockroach of this industry."
AP: You use pseudonyms for yourself as a cinematographer and editor. Were you tempted to credit yourself as an actor for 鈥淧resence鈥�?
SODERBERGH: No, but what I did is subtle. For the first and only time Peter Andrews has a camera operator credit. That鈥檚 not a credit that I typically take because I don鈥檛 need it and I typically have another operator working with me. But I felt like this was a workout. It was tricky, but really fun. It was another level of performance anxiety because I ruined more takes than anyone else in the film by a larger factor. I was the one going: 鈥淐ut. I f鈥攅d that up. We got to go again.鈥�
AP: You made this quickly and inexpensively, and then sold it to a distributor. Was it appealing to work outside the system?
SODERBERGH: The beauty of projects at this scale is I can just do them without having to talk to anybody. It鈥檚 not because I don鈥檛 want notes. It鈥檚 because it鈥檚 just the brain trust and none of the psychic real estate is taken up by things that have nothing to do with what you鈥檙e going to shoot. I went from that into a more traditional project in which a lot of psychic real estate gets taken up by the process of having a studio finance your movie. I like these people, it鈥檚 just a lot of lawyers. Like, a lot of lawyers.
AP: You've called streaming the most destructive force in movie history. What most irks you about it?
SODERBERGH: It removes a key reference point for an artist. It鈥檚 helpful to know how something is doing, or how it did. You need to know that to calibrate whether you accomplished what you wanted to accomplish, whether you can work at a certain level. That鈥檚 one of the most confusing things about it, the black box of it. Apart from the economic invisibility of what鈥檚 going on there 鈥� the fact that we can鈥檛 really look under the hood of how these streaming companies work economically 鈥� there鈥檚 another kind of handrail that鈥檚 missing that I find really helpful. At the end of the day, I, at least, want to know. The market will tell you how you鈥檙e doing. I want to know that so I can adjust or go in another direction. Being irrelevant isn鈥檛 very appealing. What is the overlap between what people seem to be responding to and what I like? Because I don鈥檛 want to make these things and have nobody see them. I鈥檝e had enough people say, 鈥淥h, did that come out?鈥� It鈥檚 a public art form.
AP: How do you suspect the audience is changing?
SODERBERGH: The good news is, if you talk to Focus Features and Neon and A24, young people are going to the movies. This is the Letterboxd generation. That鈥檚 fantastic. I hope that ripples outside the U.S. They are cine-literate and they expect something singular. They want the signature, they want the stamp of a filmmaker. And that鈥檚 turning into a real business. One of the things, I think, we all need to do, but especially the people who cover the industry, is to stop using the studio metric for what a success is. That鈥檚 not a template you should be applying to everything.
AP: Do you ever lament that the movies that made you want to be a filmmaker like 鈥淎ll the President's Men鈥� and 鈥淐hinatown鈥� occupied a different place in the culture than today's films?
SODERBERGH: There was a period of about 10 to 14 year where the best movies of the year were also the most popular movies of the year. That鈥檚 not necessarily true anymore. You can pick one of the movies that鈥檚 in the hunt this year and go: That鈥檚 a 鈥�70s movie. That鈥檚 as good and interesting as one of those. But it鈥檚 not going to do the business that one of those would have done. It鈥檚 the artist鈥檚 job to adapt. When it comes to trying to control what people want to go see, you鈥檙e now in a place like: 鈥淚f I really wish hard, it won鈥檛 rain.鈥� The weather is the weather. To a certain degree, the audience is a weather system. Luckily because of the way I began, I鈥檓 the cockroach of this industry. I can survive any version of it.
AP: You've described feeling a need to immediately 鈥渁nnihilate鈥� whatever you just made by starting on something vastly different.
SODERBERGH: Yeah, when you see 鈥淏lack Bag,鈥� you鈥檙e like, 鈥淥h, that鈥檚 different.鈥� There are more shots in the first four minutes of 鈥淏lack Bag鈥� than the entirety of 鈥淧resence.鈥� It鈥檚 a different thing and it has different demands.
AP: It鈥檚 not exhausting to reinvent yourself every movie?
SODERBERGH: No, it feels more like a natural evolution and a natural response in the sense of: I want to be a different filmmaker for this. I don鈥檛 want to know the outcome. If you have a conversation with a filmmaker who says they have 鈥渇igured things out,鈥� you should run in the other direction. It's like: You鈥檙e deluded and you have a very superficial understanding of what this art form demands if you鈥檙e not humbled by what it asks of you to be distinctive.
AP: Do you feel you've gotten closer? There might not be a filmmaker alive who's tried more ways to make a movie than you have.
SODERBERGH: No, I still feel like I鈥檓 reaching for something I quite possibly won鈥檛 ever grasp and maybe shouldn鈥檛. As frustrating as it may be to feel like I've never made a thing that is at the level of one of my heroes made, I don鈥檛 know what I鈥檇 do if I did feel that. Do you stop, then? The movie that guy got to basically go: 鈥淭hat鈥檚 my mic drop.鈥� I鈥檝e never made anything approaching that.
AP: It wouldn鈥檛 be the only film I鈥檇 suggest, but I think 鈥淥ut of Sight鈥� is pretty darn perfect.
SODERBERGH: Oh, I鈥檓 very happy with that film. I鈥檓 very proud of that film. I can鈥檛 say there鈥檚 much in it that I鈥檇 go back and change. That said, it鈥檚 not 鈥淎pocalypse Now.鈥� Or 鈥淭he Third Man.鈥� By my standards, I don鈥檛 look at it and go, 鈥淭hat鈥檚 as good as 鈥楾he Third Man.鈥欌�� I鈥檓 good at pushing myself into areas that are slightly beyond my comfort zone, but I also understand what my limitations are. I鈥檓 inherently not a grandiose thinker about myself or my work. That鈥檚 a critical component to some of the films I鈥檓 talking about that I think are amazing. I could never make 鈥淎pocalypse Now.鈥� I don鈥檛 think of myself as a filmmaker the way Francis (Ford Coppola) thinks of himself. That鈥檚 not: He should be like me or I should be like him. It鈥檚 just how we鈥檙e built. I鈥檓 more earthbound, I guess is the word. And that鈥檚 what I like and what I鈥檓 good at.
AP: Do you have any idea why?
SODERBERGH: I think it鈥檚 the way I was born and the way I was raised. And the people who were around me when I was younger who mentored me. I just don鈥檛 think I was born with the grandiosity gene and there was nobody around me who would have cultivated that even if I had shown signs. Going to Sundance last year with 鈥淧resence鈥� was really gratifying. If you鈥檇 told me 35 years later you鈥檙e going to come back here (where 鈥淪ex, Lies and Videotape鈥� premiered in 1989) with a movie that people are interested in seeing, I would have wept.
Jake Coyle, The Associated Press
